23 In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.
Time after time (after time after time after time after time after time) Proverbs has described how work equal reward. It does not describe how talking about work equal reward. God is a God of action, not mere talk of action.
6 comments:
Not to continue my streak of tough questions, but I can't read this and let it go by...let me know if I should just stop following your blog. You've put your faith out there, and I've got some questions about the claims you're making.
When's the last action your God of action has taken? Would you claim the earthquake as God's action? Would you claim the child molestation happening in America and across the world as God's action? Would you claim bin Ladin's death as God's action?
From my perspective, your God is one of "used to" action. He sent plagues, raised the dead, turned water into wine, turned disbelievers into pillars of salt, created light and darkness. Where is that God? Is it because the stories could be written hundreds of years after the fact that your God can do these actions?
I have only seen talk of action: He will return, He will do ____ (heal the sick, cure cancer, save my dying sister, etc) if it is part of His plan.
This all stems from my severe disappointment in the claims of Christianity: if your God is all-loving and both all-powerful, the world wouldn't be full of evil. Either God is not powerful enough to stop it or God doesn't love his people enough to stop it. Neither of those circumstances are one that would give me faith in my God.
I know your question wasn't addressed to me, but as a Christian and a "Wanting Wisdom" reader I'd like to offer what I can.
I personally would not claim child molestation or bin Laden's death are acts of God. I believe the Bible teaches that man has free will, and can choose to perform good or evil.
As for natural disasters, I struggle as many do to comprehend God's place in them. But I know that God is infinite, and I am not, and there may be some way that is beyond my comprehension that not stopping a natural disaster could be a loving act.
I should mention that there are other Christians who believe that God is all-powerful and all-loving, but has simply no part in natural disasters. They believe such disasters are the result of the "fallen world" Christians speak of, meaning a world that has been corrupted by man's choice to introduce sin into it.
I struggle with these ideas. I admit I'm not always comforted by them; sometimes I'm not even sure I believe them. But they're there.
As for God's actions; I see him working daily. For instance, I believe he saved my dying sister. She had a very rare liver disease which necessitated a liver transplant, a difficult operation which almost always results in an earlier death. Last year her diagnosis was changed, and she no longer requires one. Now I understand to someone who does not believe in God, this is not an obviously divine act. But I believe it was.
The most obvious acts of God to me though are in changing people. People who are caught in some destructive behavior, whether it's addiction or crime or self-worship or what have you, who turn to faith and find healing and peace. I see this continually, every day across the world, and I see these healed people going out and healing the sick and helping to the poor in tangible ways (as my other sister has recently done as a volunteer nurse in Haiti).
As for God's actions in the Bible, it is true that he was much more openly active then (although I would question the claim that all of those stories were written hundreds of years after they occurred). My understanding of the Christian narrative is that we were given Jesus as our liaison to God, and that after his resurrection we are no longer in need of direct, divine action like was seen in the Old Testament; we now have the person and teachings of Jesus to guide us.
I hope this is even a little bit helpful. The problem of pain is obviously as old as dirt, and it's not something that is going to be solved any time soon, especially not in blog comments. But we are all here, struggling together to make sense of this terribly beautiful world, and this is a little of what I have found. Peace to you.
Thank you for responding. I'm happy to hear that your sister's diagnosis is positive, and I'm happy that you've found happiness in believing in God.
I'm just not buying it, though I appreciate the time you took to thoughtfully respond to my questions.
I have seen people overcome addiction in other ways. Myself, included, mostly on my steadfast faith in myself. I understand that religion is important to some, and sometimes may be the only way for someone to feel loved, but I reject the idea that God is the only way to find healing and peace.
I just finished Thomas Paine's Age of Reason which probably doesn't help my perspective on the Bible any.
Here's a quote I found to be particularly pointed:
"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, t renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as ameans of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter."
Again, I appreciate the time you took, Justin, to respond. I welcome any tough questions you may have for me and my lack of faith in God since you've been so open and willing with your faith.
Haha well I wouldn't expect you to buy it from a blog comment. In fact, I doubt if you ever decide to become a Christian it will be because someone answered all your theological questions satisfactorily. I've been a Christian nearly all my life and mine are far from answered. But luckily for both of us, I believe there's more to it than that.
I wouldn't say I've found happiness in believing in God. Peace, yes, but I think the Bible is pretty clear that being a Christian does not help one escape suffering. But as for me, I cannot not get by on faith in myself. I've let myself down too many times.
Yeah, Thomas Paine, though he was no atheist, was no Christian either. I understand and respect his and others' struggles with the Christian religion, though certainly I think the quote you posted is wrong in its assessment of history in many ways, and unnecessarily insulting. But the helpfulness/harmfulness of Christian history is another issue. If you're looking for men who hate religion, there are plenty to find. Christianity is made up of messy, screwed-up people. The world is.
I don't have any questions for you, but thank you for offering. I respect and understand the struggles you have; I have them myself. Just wanted to offer what I could.
Well it sounds like you guys have pretty much covered everything. I'll mostly second what Justin has so articulately stated and add that God did not create the world to be so full of pain, but he's willing to stick around to remake it painless.
Actually let me add one more thing. I'd encourage you to really get to know more Christians (in the same way I encourage myself to get to know more non-Christians). I think we can gain more from each others beliefs if we know the people behind them.
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